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2004 XC70. trying to verify timing marks are correct

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shiloh51933
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2004 XC70. trying to verify timing marks are correct

Post by shiloh51933 »

IMG_20151120_160913774.jpg
IMG_20151120_161134677.jpg
I normally would not start a thread for this but I can't seem to figure why I'm have issue after replacing TB, WP, Tensioner, idler, VVT Hub plug & TB cover clips. I went by the book as far as timing marks locations and they appear to be in right locations unless I'm wrong about crankshaft timing marks. I did have an issue with thecTB tensioner, it was too loose on start up. Now I'm worried that I might have screwed up my wife's beautiful Volvo XC70. I had to remove quite a bit of stuff to get to rear of camshafts for special tool 9995452 since my father in-law insisted on helping me and removing the exhaust VVT HUB/Sprocket. I'm hoping that I did something wrong in that area. I'm loading pics of timing mark area's.
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sparky65
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Re: 2004 XC70. trying to verify timing marks are correct

Post by sparky65 »

Shiloh, I can't see the crank timing mark very well but the cam marks look correct as far as I can tell in the photo. So, as I understand, the center bolt was loosened or removed from the exhaust VVT. I don't mean just the cap, but the bolt that is under it. If the VVT bolt was loosened and not set up correctly afterwards, the paint marks on the cam gears are basically meaningless. Since there is no pin or spline to orient the VVT with respect to the cam, once removed, you would have to be extremely lucky to just pop it back on and be good to go. If this was the case, the VVT needs to be correctly set with respect to the cam first. Only then will those little paint spots actually be useful. Does this sound like what you had happen?
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Re: 2004 XC70. trying to verify timing marks are correct

Post by oragex »

The marks for the crank pulley would look like this (the one on the block that's circled can only by found by touching it). Is the tensioner needle in the middle at room temperature (cold engine)?
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sparky65
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Re: 2004 XC70. trying to verify timing marks are correct

Post by sparky65 »

I have the advantage (or disadvantage) of having my TB and tensioner off at the moment. These are the marks with the crank locking pin installed. Kind of hard to get a clean shot if the TB is still on. I did the oil pump pointer and the mark on the vibe damper up all nice and pretty a with yellow paint pen.


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Re: 2004 XC70. trying to verify timing marks are correct

Post by shiloh51933 »

sparky65 wrote:Shiloh, I can't see the crank timing mark very well but the cam marks look correct as far as I can tell in the photo. So, as I understand, the center bolt was loosened or removed from the exhaust VVT. I don't mean just the cap, but the bolt that is under it. If the VVT bolt was loosened and not set up correctly afterwards, the paint marks on the cam gears are basically meaningless. Since there is no pin or spline to orient the VVT with respect to the cam, once removed, you would have to be extremely lucky to just pop it back on and be good to go. If this was the case, the VVT needs to be correctly set with respect to the cam first. Only then will those little paint spots actually be useful. Does this sound like what you had happen?
Yes that's what happened...my father in-law(old skool mechanic) told my wife he was just looking at something while i was at work. The VVT out torx plug was leaking but he thought the oil was the front cam seal so he removed VVT Hub thing it was a regular sprocket. All it really needed was the WP...I was going to do TB, idler, tensioner and WP. I was waiting on the repair manual because I wanted it for reference but never knew what happened next. I ended up buying the rear cam locking tool and used that to try and get the VVT hub back on right. The process was loosen out sprocket bolts, center hub bolt was loose then turn hub clockwise about 2 notches then torque it down to spec then turn outer sprocket counter clockwise to line up with timing cover marks the torque 3 bolts to spec. My issue is that the cam locking tool didn't come with crankshaft locking, I'm waiting on that tool. Car has a miss on cylinder 5, I did a leak down and didn't find a leak on that cylinder and I was told by a Volvo tech friend of mine that I need to use crankshaft locking tool because of what the in-law did. Thank you.
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sparky65
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Re: 2004 XC70. trying to verify timing marks are correct

Post by sparky65 »

I think that you are right in suspecting the VVT setup as your main problem. Can't guarantee that it is the only problem but it definitely needs to be set to spec first. The VVT on my engine is the spring loaded type and I'm guessing that yours is not. With the VVT center bolt tight to the camshaft and the sprocket bolts tight, when you rotate the sprocket by hand and let go, does the VVT spring back in the CCW direction? Or does it stay where you leave it? Check this with the Tbelt off of the sprockets and the cam lock in place.

The procedures in the manuals that I have found are, in my opinion, less then crystal clear. The setup procedure is also different for the spring loaded vs non spring loaded VVT.

I don't think that the crank lock pin is absolutely necessary to set this up but at this point it is probably a good idea to wait for it and confirm the lower end set up.

Let me know what type of VVT we are dealing with and when the crank lock is there.
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Re: 2004 XC70. trying to verify timing marks are correct

Post by shiloh51933 »

[quote="sparky65"]I think that you are right in suspecting the VVT setup as your main problem. Can't guarantee that it is the only problem but it definitely needs to be set to spec first. The VVT on my engine is the spring loaded type and I'm guessing that yours is not. With the VVT center bolt tight to the camshaft and the sprocket bolts tight, when you rotate the sprocket by hand and let go, does the VVT spring back in the CCW direction? Or does it stay where you leave it? Check this with the Tbelt off of the sprockets and the cam lock in place.

The procedures in the manuals that I have found are, in my opinion, less then crystal clear. The setup procedure is also different for the spring loaded vs non spring loaded VVT.

I don't think that the crank lock pin is absolutely necessary to set this up but at this point it is probably a good idea to wait for it and confirm the lower end set up.

Let me know what type of VVT we are dealing with and when the crank lock is there.[/qthreadSparky,

Thank you for taking the time to read my thread, especially with all the spelling/wording issues I noticed after rereading my own post. My VVT's are oil operated of course, spring loaded would have been easier. Since my VVT hub isn't spring loaded how different is the preloading procedure? I'm about to drop the starter on this thing and try this again for hopefully last try at this.
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Pittsjock
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Re: 2004 XC70. trying to verify timing marks are correct

Post by Pittsjock »

Just did the front cam seals on my 2007 XC70 (130k) in connection with a PCV system replacement and got to do the CVVT hubs. Not hard, but read and then reread the instructions. I got verbal instructions from an independent Volvo mechanic friend and got them just a bit off - the car would not start. Read the Volvo instructions, followed them exactly and everything worked perfectly. I have attached a PDF of the Volvo procedures..

When you think you have it all correct, turn the engine over by hand and make sure the marks line up. There is noticeable compression when everything is in the right spot. You also want to make sure you don't hear any bad noises.

I did not lock the starter or crankshaft. Really isn't a big deal and makes it easier to align everything.

Good luck!

Patrick
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sparky65
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Re: 2004 XC70. trying to verify timing marks are correct

Post by sparky65 »

Here is a great thread on VVT setup http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums ... hilit=cvvt.

I just set up mine last night and it's running great.

Here is the setup:

1. Install cam and crank locks. Remove TB.

2. Loosen the 3 bolts for the sprocket and rotate so that the bolts are centered in the slotted holes. Tighten enough that they won't move.

3. Put the VVT on the camshaft. Doesn't matter where the marks are yet. Install center bolt tight enough to hold the VVT core to the cam. You should be able to feel that the VVT will rotate CW-CCW by about 2 sprocket teeth. These are the limits for advance and retard of the cam timing. Don't confuse these internal limits with the 3 slots in the sprocket. Rotate the VVT CW to set the VVT to it's CW limit position. The intent of this step is to grip the center of the VVT and turn the outer portion to the limit position.

4. Loosen center VVT bolt enough to let you rotate it CW until the mark on the sprocket lines up with the timing cover mark. If you go too far, don't go back CCW. Go all the way around again or the VVT could move out of the limit position.

5. When the marks line up, torque center bolt to spec.

6. Check that the 3 sprocket bolts are still centered in the slots.

7. ***Important***Check that when you rotate the VVT between it's limits that at CW, the timing marks line up. That at CCW, the sprocket mark is about 2 teeth to the left (CCW) of the mark on the cover. This should be close, but we'll fine tune things in a few more steps.

8. If it's all good, install the plug and TQ to spec.

9. Loosen the 3 bolts for the sprocket enough that it can rotate in the slotted holes.

10. Install timing belt and tension it.

11. Since the 3 sprocket bolts are still loose, you will be able to rotate the VVT independent of the sprocket to ensure that it is still at the VVT is at CW limit. Do this by putting the torx bit back into the VVT plug and use a little CW force.

12. TQ the 3 sprocket bolts to spec.

13. Pull the locks and rotate engine by hand 2x. Make sure the marks still come up correctly. Recheck the TB tension.

Hope this helps.
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shiloh51933
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Re: 2004 XC70. trying to verify timing marks are correct

Post by shiloh51933 »

sparky65 wrote:Here is a great thread on VVT setup http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums ... hilit=cvvt.

I just set up mine last night and it's running great.

Here is the setup:

1. Install cam and crank locks. Remove TB.

2. Loosen the 3 bolts for the sprocket and rotate so that the bolts are centered in the slotted holes. Tighten enough that they won't move.

3. Put the VVT on the camshaft. Doesn't matter where the marks are yet. Install center bolt tight enough to hold the VVT core to the cam. You should be able to feel that the VVT will rotate CW-CCW by about 2 sprocket teeth. These are the limits for advance and retard of the cam timing. Don't confuse these internal limits with the 3 slots in the sprocket. Rotate the VVT CW to set the VVT to it's CW limit position. The intent of this step is to grip the center of the VVT and turn the outer portion to the limit position.

4. Loosen center VVT bolt enough to let you rotate it CW until the mark on the sprocket lines up with the timing cover mark. If you go too far, don't go back CCW. Go all the way around again or the VVT could move out of the limit position.

5. When the marks line up, torque center bolt to spec.

6. Check that the 3 sprocket bolts are still centered in the slots.

7. ***Important***Check that when you rotate the VVT between it's limits that at CW, the timing marks line up. That at CCW, the sprocket mark is about 2 teeth to the left (CCW) of the mark on the cover. This should be close, but we'll fine tune things in a few more steps.

8. If it's all good, install the plug and TQ to spec.

9. Loosen the 3 bolts for the sprocket enough that it can rotate in the slotted holes.

10. Install timing belt and tension it.

11. Since the 3 sprocket bolts are still loose, you will be able to rotate the VVT independent of the sprocket to ensure that it is still at the VVT is at CW limit. Do this by putting the torx bit back into the VVT plug and use a little CW force.

12. TQ the 3 sprocket bolts to spec.

13. Pull the locks and rotate engine by hand 2x. Make sure the marks still come up correctly. Recheck the TB tension.

Hope this helps.
This is close to the Haynes manual but the description is better. I have to questions I hope you can help with...First, only the exhaust hub/sprocket was removed from camshaft...so this means I only have to set this vvt hub/sprocket right? I just have to make sure the intake hub/sprocket is CW on it's limit without moving the actual camshaft. I think what I was confused on was the 3 10mm bolts on the sprocket to VVT hub unit. So I have to leave the 3 sprocket bolts loose until I get the timing belt back on and tensioned? How did you keep the 3 sprocket bolts from moving during T belt installation
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